st tries not to redraw immediately after new data arrives:

https://git.suckless.org/st/file/x.c.html#l1984

The exact timings are configurable.

This is the PR that changed the timing in VTE recently (2023):

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/vte/-/issues/2678

There is a long discussion. It’s not a trivial problem, especially not in the context of GTK and multiple competing terminal widgets. st dodges all these issues (for various reasons).

Something happened with the frame rate of terminal emulators lately. It looks like there’s a trend to run at a high framerate now? I’m not sure exactly. This can be seen in VTE-based terminals like my xiate or XTerm on Wayland. foot and st, on the other hand, are fine.

My shell prompt and cursor look like this:

$ █

When I keep Enter pressed, I expect to see several lines like so:

$
$
$
$
$
$
$ █

With the affected terminal emulators, the lines actually show up in the following sequence. First, we have the original line:

$ █

Pressing Enter yields this as the next frame:

$
█

And then eventually this:

$
$ █

In other words, you can see the cursor jumping around very quickly, all the time.

Another example: Vim actually shows which key you just pressed in the bottom right corner. Keeping j pressed to scroll through a file means I get to see a j flashing rapidly now.

(I have no idea yet, why exactly XTerm in X11 is fine but flickering in Wayland.)

The WM_CLASS Property is used on X11 to assign rules to certain windows, e.g. “this is a GIMP window, it should appear on workspace number 16.” It consists of two fields, name and class.

Wayland (or rather, the XDG shell protocol – core Wayland knows nothing about this) only has a single field called app_id.

When you run X11 programs under Wayland, you use XWayland, which is baked into most compositors. Then you have to deal with all three fields.

Some compositors map name to app_id, others map class to app_id, and even others directly expose the original name and class.

Apparently, there is no consensus.

@iolfree@tilde.club Oh dear! All the best to this feller. I wouldn’t want to trade places with him.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org Haha 🤣

We covered quite some ground in the two and a half hours today. The weather was nice, mostly cloudy and just 23°C. That’s also why we decided to take a longer tour. We saw four deer in the wild, three of which I managed to just ban on film, quality could be better, though. My camera produced a hell lot of defocused photos this time. Not sure what’s going on with the autofocus. https://lyse.isobeef.org/waldspaziergang-2025-07-10/

When the sun came out, colors were just beautiful:

Image

@prologic@twtxt.net @bender@twtxt.net That’s what I thought as well, sounds way too expensive to me. But I have no idea what the prices are over here. Probably also astronomical. Campers sit around most of the time, one really would need to use them a lot to justify spending so much money on them.

But yeah, each to their own (expensive) hobbies. :-) I, for example, burn my money on tools that I don’t really™ need. :-P

@bender@twtxt.net An older Firefox on Debian.

@prologic@twtxt.net well, the ones down there (on your list) are pretty minimal, basic even. Yet, their pricing is super high (number wise, haven’t checked the equivalent from AUD to USD).

@bender@twtxt.net are they really though when you factor in the weaker AUD? 🧐

Those campers are so expensive! For comparison: https://www.rvtrader.com/Orlando/rvs-for-sale?city=orlando&state=Florida%7CFL

Been spending a lot of time researching campers as I want to / plan to upgrade our current Camper Trailoer (forward fold) Stoney Creek XL-FF6 to a slightly larger Hybrid Camper/Caravan with ensuite, internal kitchenette, external full hitchen, pop-top roof and twin bunks.

This is the summary and whittling down of my research so far: https://wiki.mills.io/s/1103bc9c-dd75-4a98-b64b-8dadc5b0e51f/doc/comparision-Ln03Moiibq

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org which browser do you use? Chrome, Edge, and Firefox, under Ubuntu, all show it fine.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de This one is too bleeding edge for me, not even my browser can render it.

Yeah, little fellow. I also just want to walk away. https://movq.de/v/bef8c35f01/ach.mp4

“🫩” is my new favorite emoji.

@kat@yarn.girlonthemoon.xyz I dislike him big time. It was a sad day when Tumblr felt on his hands.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org Yeah, if there’s no stable API, then it’s not a lot of fun … Bah. :|

@kat@yarn.girlonthemoon.xyz Ok 👌

i made a new tumblr account to interact with fandom last week. while using the site today i got logged out and when i logged back in i was told my account was terminated. mullenweg will pay for this

@prologic@twtxt.net i’ll email you!

@movq@www.uninformativ.de I couldn’t agree more! It’s far from easy. I’m not free of this guilt either. But I’m hardly trying.

We got some colorful spots in the sky this evening: https://lyse.isobeef.org/abendhimmel-2025-07-08/

Image

@movq@www.uninformativ.de I’d love to have a Python script pushing my local CSV, too. But that’s never gonna fly, not in a thousand years. I can’t imagine that ever becoming reasonably stable without having to fix everything after the reverse-engineered API changes again.

… but you can’t set SDL_VIDEODRIVER=wayland globally, because that breaks Wine again …

… okay, the SDL backend works if you also set SDL_VIDEODRIVER=wayland.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org dmenu is a great example.

There have been several attempts at porting dmenu from X11 to Wayland. Well, not exactly “porting” it, more like rewriting it from scratch. Turns out: It’s not that easy.

dmenu is super fast and reliable. None of the Wayland rewrites are (at least none of the popular ones that I know of). They are either bloated and/or slow.

It takes a lot of discipline and restraint to write simple software and not blow up the codebase. This is much harder than people think. It’s a form of art, really.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org I do my timetracking in a little Python script, locally. Every now and then, I push the data to our actual service. Problem solved – but it’s a completely unpopular approach, they all want to use the web site. I don’t get it. Then, of course, when it’s down, shit hits the fan. (Luckily, our timetracking software is neither developed nor run by us anymore. It’s a silly cloud service, but the upside is that I’m not responsible anymore. 🤷)

Some of our oldschool devs tried to roll out local timetracking once, about 15 years ago. I don’t remember anymore why they failed …

This is developed inhouse, I’m just so glad that we’re not a software engineering company. Oh wait. How embarrassing.

Oh to be anonymous on the internet. That must be nice. 😅

Image

https://youtu.be/QtXby3twMmI

@prologic@twtxt.net Ta!

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Yeah, luckily, there is the suckless project. I couldn’t live without dmenu!

… but the SDL backend is broken as well, albeit differently …

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Yeah, it’s a shitshow. MS overconfirms all my prejudices constantly.

Ignoring e-mail after lunch works great, though. :-)

Our timetracking is offline for over a week because of reasons. The responsible bunglers are falling by the skin of their teeth: https://lyse.isobeef.org/tmp/timetracking.png

1. The error message neither includes the timeframe nor a link to an announcement article.
   
2. The HTML page needs to download JS in order to display the fucking error message.
   
3. Proper HTTP status codes are clearly only for big losers.
   
4. Despite being down, heaps of resources are still fetched.
   

I find it really fascinating how one can screw up on so many levels. This is developed inhouse, I’m just so glad that we’re not a software engineering company. Oh wait. How embarrassing.

… which is probably a GTK bug.

QEMU on Wayland unusable, because it can’t grab the mouse … I’ll add it to my TODO list and investigate/report it eventually.

@movq@www.uninformativ.de This is a really good example of “simplicity” but achieves the intent and goals 👌

(Now, I don’t know if your screen reader can work with this. Let me know if it doesn’t.)

I don’t use a screen reader fortunately (actually they’re pretty garbage). So all good 👍 (I juse use full-screen zoom).

@prologic@twtxt.net Yeah, this really could use a proper definition or a “manifest”. 😅 Many of these ideas are not very wide spread. And I haven’t come across similar projects in all these years.

Let’s take the farbfeld image format as an example again. I think this captures the “spirit” quite well, because this isn’t even about code.

This is the entire farbfeld spec:

farbfeld is a lossless image format which is easy to parse, pipe and compress. It has the following format:

╔════════╤═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╗
║ Bytes  │ Description                                             ║
╠════════╪═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╣
║ 8      │ "farbfeld" magic value                                  ║
╟────────┼─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────╢
║ 4      │ 32-Bit BE unsigned integer (width)                      ║
╟────────┼─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────╢
║ 4      │ 32-Bit BE unsigned integer (height)                     ║
╟────────┼─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────╢
║ [2222] │ 4x16-Bit BE unsigned integers [RGBA] / pixel, row-major ║
╚════════╧═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╝

The RGB-data should be sRGB for best interoperability and not alpha-premultiplied.

(Now, I don’t know if your screen reader can work with this. Let me know if it doesn’t.)

I think these are some of the properties worth mentioning:

• The spec is extremely short. You can read this in under a minute and fully understand it. That alone is gold.
  
• There are no “knobs”: It’s just a single version, it’s not like there’s also an 8-bit color depth version and one for 16-bit and one for extra large images and one that supports layers and so on. This makes it much easier to implement a fully compliant program.
  
• Despite being so simple, it’s useful. I’ve used it in various programs, like my window manager, my status bars, some toy programs like “tuxeyes” (an Xeyes variant), or Advent of Code.
  
• The format does not include compression because it doesn’t need to. Just use something like bzip2 to get file sizes similar to PNG.
  
• It doesn’t cover every use case under the sun, but it does cover the most important ones (imho). They have discussed using something other than RGBA and decided it’s not worth the trouble.
  
• They refrained from adding extra baggage like metadata. It would have needlessly complicated things.

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org Nice shot! 😳

For example, I reckon software should treat stdout and stderr with care and never output logs or other such garbage to stdout that cannot possibly be useful in a UNIX pipeline 😅

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Yeah that’s why I’m striking this conversation with you 😅 Not only do I respect your opinion quite highly 🤣 But like you say (and I’ve read their philipshpy) it can be a bit “elitism” for sure. I’m genuinely interested in what we think of as software that “doesn’t suck”. Tb be honest I haven’t really put thought to paper myself, but I reckon if I did, I’d have some opinions/ideas…

@prologic@twtxt.net Hm, I wouldn’t say that. Go code could fall into that category as well.

Maybe this topic could use a blog post / article, that explains what it’s about. I’m finding it hard to really define what “suckless-like software” is. 🤔 (Their own philosophy focuses too much on elitism, if you ask me.)

@movq@www.uninformativ.de So you wouldn;t consider things written in Go to be “suckless”-esque? 🤔

@prologic@twtxt.net Ah, I’m referring to software that’s similar to that of suckless.org: Small, minimal codebases, small tools, but still useful. dmenu is probably the best example and also farbfeld.

Here’s the author of Anubis talking about some of their experiences:

https://xeiaso.net/blog/why-i-use-suckless-tools-2020-06-05/

(You can skip the long config and keybinds part.)

@eldersnake@we.loveprivacy.club Yeah well when you put it like that 🤣

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Curious what you would define as “suck less” software? (language agnostic of course!)

3 days before #rimworld new DLC, I’ve updated some tips a little bit : https://si3t.ch/misc/jeux/rimworld/

@prologic@twtxt.net

I’ve been playing around with AI at home over the past few months and building my own neural networks from scratch (in Go) with genetic algorithms

Oh, is that all 🤣

That sounds like some intensive ‘playing around’ haha

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Happy birthday and good health! :-)

Yesterday’s moon through the window: https://lyse.isobeef.org/mond-2025-07-06/

Image