In-reply-to » @prologic didn't it already? or is it just me and my social bubble? 🤔

@prologic@twtxt.net Nah! I don’t do news feeds 🤣 I gave some a try back then but it was just way too much noise. I have a separate app for RSS feeds I want to follow. None of them mention AI except for one article about the author’s fight back against the crawlers, I believe I’ve mentioned it before.

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Something odd just happened to my twtxt timeline… A bunch of twts dissapered, others were marked to be deleted in mutt. so I nuked my whole twtxt Maildir and deleted my ~/.cache/jenny in order to start with a fresh Pull. I pulled feed as usual. Now like HALF the twts aren’t there 😂 even my my last replay. WTF IS GOING ON? 🤣🤣🤣

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In-reply-to » The tag URI scheme looks interesting. I like that it human read- and writable. And since we already got the timestamp in the twtxt.txt it would be somewhat trivial to parse. But there are still the issue with what the name/id should be... Maybe it doesn't have to bee that stick?

@sorenpeter@darch.dk

Also what are the change that the same human will make two different posts within the same second?!

Just out of curiosity, What would happen someday if I (maybe trolling) edit my twtxt.txt-file manually and switch/switch a couple of twt timestamps, or add in 3 different twts manually with the same time stamp?

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In-reply-to » The tag URI scheme looks interesting. I like that it human read- and writable. And since we already got the timestamp in the twtxt.txt it would be somewhat trivial to parse. But there are still the issue with what the name/id should be... Maybe it doesn't have to bee that stick?

@mckinley@twtxt.net Thanks for the feedback.

  1. Yeah I agrees that nick sound not be part of syntax. Any valid URL to a twtxt.txt-file should be enough and is more clear, so it is not confused with a email (one of the the issues with webfinger and fedivese handles)
  2. I think any valid URL would work, since we are not bound to look for exact matches. Accepting both http and https as well as a gemni and gophe could all work as long as the path to the twtxt.txt is the same.
  3. My idea is that you quote the timestamp as it is in the original twtxt.txt that you are referring to, so you can do it by simply copy/pasting. Also what are the change that the same human will make two different posts within the same second?!

Regarding the whole cryptographic keys for identity, to me it seems like an unnecessary layer of complexity. If you move to a new house or city you tell people that you moved - you can do the same in a twtxt.txt. Just post something like “I move to this new URL, please follow me there!” I did that with my feeds at least twice, and you guys still seem to read my posts:)

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In-reply-to » @prologic Some criticisms and a possible alternative direction:

The tag URI scheme looks interesting. I like that it human read- and writable. And since we already got the timestamp in the twtxt.txt it would be somewhat trivial to parse. But there are still the issue with what the name/id should be… Maybe it doesn’t have to bee that stick?

Instead of using tag: as the prefix/protocol, it would more it clear what we are talking about by using in-reply-to: (https://indieweb.org/in-reply-to) or replyto: similar to mailto:

  1. (reply:sorenpeter@darch.dk,2024-09-15T12:06:27Z)
  2. (in-reply-to:darch.dk/twtxt.txt,2024-09-15T12:06:27Z)
  3. (replyto:http://darch.dk/twtxt.txt,2024-09-15T12:06:27Z)

I know it’s longer that 7-11 characters, but it’s self-explaining when looking at the twtxt.txt in the raw, and the cases above can all be caught with this regex: \([\w-]*reply[\w-]*\:

Is this something that would work?

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@prologic@twtxt.net earlier you suggested extending hashes to 11 characters, but here’s an argument that they should be even longer than that.

Imagine I found this twt one day at https://example.com/twtxt.txt :

2024-09-14T22:00Z Useful backup command: rsync -a “$HOME” /mnt/backup

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and I responded with “(#5dgoirqemeq) Thanks for the tip!”. Then I’ve endorsed the twt, but it could latter get changed to

2024-09-14T22:00Z Useful backup command: rm -rf /some_important_directory

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which also has an 11-character base32 hash of 5dgoirqemeq. (I’m using the existing hashing method with https://example.com/twtxt.txt as the feed url, but I’m taking 11 characters instead of 7 from the end of the base32 encoding.)

That’s what I meant by “spoofing” in an earlier twt.

I don’t know if preventing this sort of attack should be a goal, but if it is, the number of bits in the hash should be at least two times log2(number of attempts we want to defend against), where the “two times” is because of the birthday paradox.

Side note: current hashes always end with “a” or “q”, which is a bit wasteful. Maybe we should take the first N characters of the base32 encoding instead of the last N.

Code I used for the above example: https://fossil.falsifian.org/misc/file?name=src/twt_collision/find_collision.c
I only needed to compute 43394987 hashes to find it.

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And here the Tommos camp with Mum and Dad in the trailor at Myall Lakes.
Boy I could tell you some stories here, like the time we got dozens of spiders all in the tent one night, and the time Dad yelled to Bob to get the red belly black snake that crawled over Brains sleeping bag. Up I jump grab a shovel and cut the head off. silly me !! We camped out with all our partners too.

Karen was treated like family with the 5 siblings and Mum and Dad. It was a great time. Happy camping James on your birthday!

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Happy Birthday my Son, I guess you are still camping and celebrating your special day with family.
You were born on a Wednesday on 15 September 1982 at Belmont Hospital, which is a lovely low set place outside Newcastle, as you were brought home to live with my Mum and Dad at Sunshine in our first few months as a married couple, at Sunshine near Morriset NSW. Enjoy your special day.

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Happy Birthday my Son, I guess you are still camping and celebrating your special day with family.
You were born on a Wednesday on 15 September 1982 at Belmont Hospital, which is a lovely low set place outside Newcastle, as you were brought home to live with my Mum and Dad at Sunshine in our first few months as a married couple. If you subtract 9 months and a bit, the term of your pregnancy, that makes your conception date a few days after our marriage, and the first time both of us had sexual intercourse together, sometime around Friday Saturday or Sunday beginning on 4th December 1981. We were married at Gosford and arrived in the Sydney Hilton Hotel on that evening Thursday 3rd December, it was such a quiet place so far above the street level, the tiny cars below looked like ants. Because you were the first child, we have special sessions each week to attend to learn how to be parents after your birth, and care for the Mum during your delivery. If I remember yours was a breech birth, the doctor had to turn you around somewhat before the normal course of action took place. Karen was brave, being only on gas. Enjoy your special day.

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I just received a thought… When you visit a server home page, or any page, why can’t the server sent you a page full of images, asking the human to click on three ants, or four ducks, or two trees, or five cars?
Can an AI machine do such a thing? After a few seconds of human time, the page they wish is downloaded for them. Would this work all you computer experts? (I am getting sick of bots reading my content and stealing my copyright)

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aujourd’hui, j’ai configuré un serveur caldav pour éviter les oublis de rendez-vous avec ma chérie, et j’ai configuré unbound pour qu’il fasse le résolveur DNS en même temps qu’être le point de sortie de mon VPN #wireguard. Ça traînait depuis trop longtemps. C’était pas une si mauvaise journée ^^

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Cette nuit, j’ai rêvé de PV Nova qui reprenait RATM et modifiait très légèrement le rythme, c’était vraiment excellent. J’ai maintenant la musique dans la tête :)

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Ford Seeks Patent For Tech That Listens To Driver Conversations To Serve Ads
Ford is seeking a patent for technology that would allow it to tailor in-car advertising by listening to conversations among vehicle occupants, as well as by analyzing a car’s historical location and other data, according to a patent application published late last month. The Record: “In one example, the controller may moni … ⌘ Read more

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In-reply-to » @prologic Some criticisms and a possible alternative direction:

@lyse@lyse.isobeef.org This looks like a nice way to do it.

Another thought: if clients can’t agree on the url (for example, if we switch to this new way, but some old clients still do it the old way), that could be mitigated by computing many hashes for each twt: one for every url in the feed. So, if a feed has three URLs, every twt is associated with three hashes when it comes time to put threads together.

A client stills need to choose one url to use for the hash when composing a reply, but this might add some breathing room if there’s a period when clients are doing different things.

(From what I understand of jenny, this would be difficult to implement there since each pseudo-email can only have one msgid to match to the in-reply-to headers. I don’t know about other clients.)

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In-reply-to » All this hash breakage made me wonder if we should try to introduce “message IDs” after all. 😅

@movq@www.uninformativ.de Another idea: just hash the feed url and time, without the message content. And don’t twt more than once per second.

Maybe you could even just use the time, and rely on @-mentions to disambiguate. Not sure how that would work out.

Though I kind of like the idea of twts being immutable. At least, it’s clear which version of a twt you’re replying to (assuming nobody is engineering hash collisions).

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In-reply-to » On the Subject of Feed Identities; I propose the following:

In fact, maybe your public key idea is compatible with my last point. Just come up with a url scheme that means “this feed’s primary URL is actually a public key”, and then feed authors can optionally switch to that.

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In-reply-to » On the Subject of Feed Identities; I propose the following:

@prologic@twtxt.net Some criticisms and a possible alternative direction:

  1. Key rotation. I’m not a security person, but my understanding is that it’s good to be able to give keys an expiry date and replace them with new ones periodically.

  2. It makes maintaining a feed more complicated. Now instead of just needing to put a file on a web server (and scan the logs for user agents) I also need to do this. What brought me to twtxt was its radical simplicity.

Instead, maybe we should think about a way to allow old urls to be rotated out? Like, my metadata could somehow say that X used to be my primary URL, but going forward from date D onward my primary url is Y. (Or, if you really want to use public key cryptography, maybe something similar could be used for key rotation there.)

It’s nice that your scheme would add a way to verify the twts you download, but https is supposed to do that anyway. If you don’t trust https to do that (maybe you don’t like relying on root CAs?) then maybe your preferred solution should be reflected by your primary feed url. E.g. if you prefer the security offered by IPFS, then maybe an IPNS url would do the trick. The fact that feed locations are URLs gives some flexibility. (But then rotation is still an issue, if I understand ipns right.)

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In-reply-to » All this hash breakage made me wonder if we should try to introduce “message IDs” after all. 😅

@movq@www.uninformativ.de @prologic@twtxt.net Another option would be: when you edit a twt, prefix the new one with (#[old hash]) and some indication that it’s an edited version of the original tweet with that hash. E.g. if the hash used to be abcd123, the new version should start “(#abcd123) (redit)”.

What I like about this is that clients that don’t know this convention will still stick it in the same thread. And I feel it’s in the spirit of the old pre-hash (subject) convention, though that’s before my time.

I guess it may not work when the edited twt itself is a reply, and there are replies to it. Maybe that could be solved by letting twts have more than one (subject) prefix.

But the great thing about the current system is that nobody can spoof message IDs.

I don’t think twtxt hashes are long enough to prevent spoofing.

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Telegram Disables ‘Misused’ Features As CEO Faces Criminal Charges
Following the arrest of its CEO Pavel Durov last month, the encrypted messaging service said it has disabled some “outdated” and “misused” features used by anonymous users. The Verge reports: The first changes to the app following his arrest in France last month affect its built-in blog posts and a “People Nearby” location-based feature. […] … ⌘ Read more

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PwC ‘Tipping the Balance’ of Hybrid Working and Will Start Tracking Its Workers’ Locations
PwC has demanded staff spend less time working from home – and it’s going to start tracking their location to ensure they comply. From a report: The accountancy firm informed its 26,000 U.K. employees in a memo that from January they’ll be expected to be at their desks – or with clients – at leas … ⌘ Read more

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